What should ILDA do in response to proposed laser pointer bans?

[Patrick Murphy]

This thread is for discussion of what ILDA can or should do in response to proposed laser pointer bans. The original message sent to ILDA Members and other laserists today is as follows:

I would be interested in hearing from ILDA Members and laserists regarding the proposed ban of laser pointers in New South Wales.

As a background, my understanding is that at this time the legislation is proposed and not enacted. It would classify laser pointers as “controlled weapons”. The maximum fine would be 14 years in jail; minimum fine is $5000 (USD? AUS?) and/or 2 years in jail. The penalty depends on the laser power. If anyone has a link to the exact text of the NSW legislation, that would be useful.

There has been some reaction against the ban. See “Backlash over ban on laser pointers” from the Sydney Morning Herald: http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/backlash-over-ban-on-laser-pointers/2008/04/21/1208742851975.html (http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/backlash-over-ban-on-laser-pointers/2008/04/21/1208742851975.html).

My questions are:

1) Should ILDA become involved in this issue? One side is that we do legal, permitted laser shows and thus a ban on handheld laser pointers would not seem to affect us. The other side is that “it could be us next”, with bans on all outdoor uses of lasers. Also, a ban causes people to view lasers as more hazardous.

2) If you feel ILDA should be involved, at what level? Some suggestions from least to most active, and we can of course do more than one at once:
A) Do nothing at this time.
B) Develop a policy statement about our views; post it at the ILDA website.
C) Try to contact legislators and the press with our views, to “get our side of the story” out
D) Actively work with teachers, astronomers, laser pointer vendors who have legitimate uses, to form a coalition in support of laser pointers.
E) Something else?

3) At the very least, ILDA could develop a policy on laser pointers. If so, what should the policy be?
A) Enforce existing laws about laser pointer use and importation
B) Ban handheld laser pointers above a certain power (what power?)
C) Enact new laws against deliberate aiming of lasers at aircraft
D) Require licenses to buy high powered laser pointers

I should point out that ILDA generally does not have funds or resources for any large-scale activity. We have a half-time Executive Director and that is it. Everything else is done by volunteers working on behalf of ILDA, and/or by raising money for special projects such as hiring lobbyists or PR companies. For example, most of the work on the U.S. SAE G-10 laser safety subcommittee was done by individuals such as Greg Makhov who paid their own way to the many interminable meetings.

So, what if anything should ILDA do? Feel free to respond here on the list, at the ILDA Forums, or privately to the Board of Directors and I at board@laserist.org (board@laserist.org).

-- Patrick Murphy
ILDA Executive Director

PS: Also, in terms of “what can we do?”, I’d like to mention the Wikipedia article on “Lasers and aviation safety” at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lasers_and_aviation_safety (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lasers_and_aviation_safety). I wrote almost all of the article, and it is a good resource with factual data useful for the press or anyone else interested in this topic.

[Patrick Murphy]

This is the first response I received, about what ILDA should do regarding laser pointer bans. It is being posted anonymously because the person who sent it to me did not have time to go into great detail or polish their thoughts.

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2) If you feel ILDA should be involved, at what level? Some suggestions from least to most active, and we can of course do more than one at once:
A) Do nothing at this time.
B) Develop a policy statement about our views; post it at the ILDA website.
C) Try to contact legislators and the press with our views, to “get our side of the story” out
Probably something between B and C.

D) Actively work with teachers, astronomers, laser pointer vendors who have legitimate uses, to form a coalition in support of laser pointers.
Problem is, there is barely a legitimate use of pointers above 5mW. Even 5mW is damn bright, and certainly bright enough to highlight anything that needs to be pointed out. Any higher power should require some kind of "license" or otherwise.

3) At the very least, ILDA could develop a policy on laser pointers. If so, what should the policy be?
A) Enforce existing laws about laser pointer use and importation
B) Ban handheld laser pointers above a certain power (what power?)
C) Enact new laws against deliberate aiming of lasers at aircraft
D) Require licenses to buy high powered laser pointers
A lot of the above could be relevant on some level. Who (aside from the police) would need a "high power laser pointer"? In fact, even the "Laser Dazzler" device advertised for police and military really isn't a pointer.
Anyway, my own personal feeling is that nobody should have a pointer about 5mW. There are no legitimate uses of these. Plenty of illegitimate uses, but no legitimate uses.
Australia does seem to go overboard -- as did UK, in its ban of pointers. I think other countries have also banned pointers. It would be interesting to get John O'Hagan's perspective on all of this.

[Tim Walsh]

Check out this site - they sell 100% legal high powered laser pointers in the USA.

Apparently, installing a key switch, shutter, and labels on a hand held laser is good enough for the CDRH! How can they ensure a 3 meter clearance while holding a laser pointer? This seems to make a mockery of the laser show regs we try to follow in ILDA.

http://www.laserglow.com/index.php?regulations

- Tim Walsh

[Patrick Murphy]

Tim --

The FDA/CDRH regulates laser hardware. There are only three uses of lasers which they regulate: surveying, medical, and demonstration/display.

You can buy any type of laser you want, without restriction in the U.S. However, if you use the laser for demonstrations such as in a classroom, or display purposes including laser shows, then the use itself becomes a regulated "demonstration laser product".

Perhaps it could be said that a laser pointer is being used for a demonstration or display, the purpose being to see the laser dot (or beam) for "display" purposes. I am not sure if the CDRH goes along with this specific interpretation. If they did, it would mean you would have to file a show report anytime you use a laser pointer over 5 mW.

Anyway, the main point is that the laser pointer guys are right to a certain extent. If they comply with the laser hardware regulations pertaining to shutters and emission indicators and keyswitches, they can legally sell their >5mW product. Users, however, cannot legally create any public display (including for free) with the >5mW pointers, while playing Pink Floyd :p.